Proposal for Group Routing

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kLabMouse
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#31 Post by kLabMouse »

Darki wrote:I dunno how to explain, basically you're talking about two TVs that shows different programmes each other(both OK and accounts), then you (mAI) watch both TVs at the same time, what I'm tring to say is, wouldn't be possible to show both programmes in the same TV (like on multiplayer console games when the screen is divided)?

Maybe I'm getting too carried on. xD
Mo there will be no such Function build it to Kore.
You see, AI 2008 by itself eat 3% of Processor power + 5% for Each IO Communication + 3% for AI ~= 11% of Processor power per Proggy. Don't forget, that AI 2008 is mutiprocess, multi threaded, so it can Eat all you Processors power on ALL 4 Core's.

And, now, IF we build in ability to run multiple AI<->Client<->Server, that will grow Proggy to eat +5% per such instance.
SO, average 2 Core processor will run: 38 and more characters at once.

The question is. Do we want it??
Every Developer say: NUUUUUUUU!
h4rry84
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#32 Post by h4rry84 »

that's heavy.. -_- so let's say NUUUUUUUUU
Darki
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#33 Post by Darki »

Well, ok, I just asked. Anyways, I hope some of this gets taken in mind, at least the grouping stuff and all.
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#34 Post by Technology »

I could run 134 at home then, doubling up koreRO's active population. :twisted: (3 PC's respectively 1,2,4 core's)

kLab and I have discussed multi-botting and to not allow it proved to be better for the community.
Imagine the load (bandwidth, imba eco, mayhem, ...) on a server with a few people multi-botting like 100 bots.
Servers will have to counter this move by enforcing zero-tolerance vs bots because those that can't will cease to exist.
Conclusion, multi-botting means the end of all bots.

The alternative to allow for some sort of master AI is by using the BUS system, interconnecting multiple bot clients.
That would consume more processor power than their multi-bot equivalent, thereby limiting power and no exodus for bots (yet).

Keeping the community alive is the essence of all Openkore bot ethics. (no ks, no multi-bot, ...)
One ST0 to rule them all? One PE viewer to find them!
One ST_kRO to bring them all and in the darkness bind them...

Mount Doom awaits us, fellowship of OpenKore!
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kLabMouse
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#35 Post by kLabMouse »

Totally agree with Technology.
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#36 Post by Darki »

Technology wrote:I could run 134 at home then, doubling up koreRO's active population. :twisted: (3 PC's respectively 1,2,4 core's)

kLab and I have discussed multi-botting and to not allow it proved to be better for the community.
Imagine the load (bandwidth, imba eco, mayhem, ...) on a server with a few people multi-botting like 100 bots.
Servers will have to counter this move by enforcing zero-tolerance vs bots because those that can't will cease to exist.
Conclusion, multi-botting means the end of all bots.

The alternative to allow for some sort of master AI is by using the BUS system, interconnecting multiple bot clients.
That would consume more processor power than their multi-bot equivalent, thereby limiting power and no exodus for bots (yet).

Keeping the community alive is the essence of all Openkore bot ethics. (no ks, no multi-bot, ...)
Multi-botting is still possible without any kind of "grouping" stuff, like you said in your first sentence, so, in any cases this wouldn't make any difference; if you wanna run 134 bots and the multi-botting stuff takes too much resources you can just run them by the "ol' way". Anyways I understand your point, but I'd love to be able to at least run a group of 6~8 bots, that were able to develop some group strategies other than "follow" and "heal".

So, what I mean, is that the group-managing mechanics for OK don't seem to have much to do for the reasons you posted, I mean, why youd you make 100+ bots to run together killing monsters like a crowd? That would make sense, in any case, to kill a Bio Lab boss or a Beelzebup, but with a party of 4~6 bots you have more than enough to deal against any mob that currently is on RO.

I could care less if you make intentionally OK to use a shitload of resources, but I believe group-managing mechanics for OK wouldn't hurt the community, in fact, it would make it better, because it could make people to think about smart strategies for bot grouping, good parties, giving more room to develop OK.

RO is a MMO, a MULTIPLAYER game. I can't imagine why being able to ontrol a group of bots in an efficient way would actually hurt OK community.

In fact, if you ask me, I see more damage in the "I run 134 bots at home" hunting for different things, than the possibility of an intelligent group bot mechanics. The idea of bot grouping is for example, to make a party of a Crusader, Wizard, Bard and Priest to be able to develop an strategy in a better way that relying on long and complex macros or blocks, so, you can make the Crusader to tank a huge mob while the Priest heals it and the Bard helps the Wizard to cast faster. to intelligently make a group of bots to work as one. That is not "bad" for the game, what is "bad" is to put 100+ bots on a field all of them killing Sohees to get slotted Mufflers so nobody else can't even see a Sohee around. And that is actually possible for anybody at this moment with a good computer.
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#37 Post by kLabMouse »

Any Kind of MultiBotting will be limited by CPU power.
Some Unoptimized High CPU Consumption procedures inside AI, and you will be unable to run more then 5 full Instances of OpenKore.
But, if you Enable PartyAI mode, then only PartyAI will eat your CPU power, and all other Slave Instances will consume 15%.
:D
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#38 Post by Darki »

I'd say let botting with 8~10 bots, at least let it to be possible to party with one of each job (or at least one of each job class). Maybe it'd be better to limit the functionality of this with any other way than computer resources, you know, sometiumes I like to do some other stuff while botting... I don't want my computer to die with 5 bots and Photoshop. o_o
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Re: Proposal for Group Routing

#39 Post by Technology »

Darki, I can't help but noticing that you are totally missing my point and that you are making too much assumptions.
Darki wrote:if you wanna run 134 bots and the multi-botting stuff takes too much resources you can just run them by the "ol' way".
This scentence proves that you do not understand our concept for the multi-bot system.
You could not get anywhere near this amount of bots using the "old way", it would use too much recources.
It would however become possible if we were to implement the new multi-bot system.
And that will not be the case.

The multi-bot system that kLab and I have discussed would use so little CPU that people will be able to run huge amounts of bots for whatever reason they want to.
Obviously that is not good, there for we will not implement this.
We do not want people to multi-bot huge numbers of bots, because that will affect the whole community in a bad way.

With the BUS system a group of bots could use intelligent group tactics.
And like kLab says: 15% CPU per bot with a master party AI.
You will be able to run a small cooperative group of bots without problems.
We never said that party AI would hurt OK.

Clear?
One ST0 to rule them all? One PE viewer to find them!
One ST_kRO to bring them all and in the darkness bind them...

Mount Doom awaits us, fellowship of OpenKore!